Interesting looking at this breakdown of TBV MVP voting ....
shows Lance coming 5th in the MVP, but only from votes in 4 games ... all 5 voters. Compare with Kouta who has received votes in 13 of 18 games.

http://theblueview.org/phpBB2tbv/view_m ... rboard.php

But it will be interesting to see the results from the Club B&F.

If that's reflected in the B&F voting then he'll be lucky to make the top 10.

As Teague's win last year showed the new voting system for the Nic rewards consistency above flashes of brilliance.

Whitnall winning the B&F?

Hehe, for trade value purposes maybe...

Sorry but it's easy to play well when you don't have a direct opponent for most of the game. The times on the weekend when he did have a direct opponent he was usually shown up as being inadequate for a true CHB.

He's no different to Rivers - I think Rivers is overrated because he usually plays 3rd man at the contest and can win contests this way, one-on-one he's not that good. I'm going to cop it from Demons fans here but we all saw how good J.Cloke was in his first year playing 3rd man up.

If it's about stats, then Whits has been ok this year, but it's not just about stats - it's what you do with them and how you get them.

How about the times when Lance has been shown up for pace and his opponent has run him down?

Sorry, as smart as Lance is, we can't have him staying. Let him be traded for something of value. I would be pushing very very hard for Bartel, offer him decent money (like 280/300K) and say to Geelong, take Whitnall or else Bartel goes into the PSD.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Seriously guys. I dont care either way if he stays or goes. If he stays I will be happy because it will show that the players dont hate pagan and that he loves the club and that there is SOME unity in the club, because I am sure other clubs are chasing him and if he hated the club he would go no question. If we trade him for someone decent then thats a win for us also.

As for Kouta leading the MVP that is rubbish. He had a fantastic game on the weekend, but this year he has appeared disinterested, and just going through the motions. What he does with the ball has not been all that damaging for someone of his ilk. But somehow he escapes criticism because of his past.

I would be happy to hear that players whether we want them or not want to stay with the club, because I want to see Unity.

Except that he had the same pace when he was All Australian ... but he was in a different team playing a different style of football back then. And in many of those times when Lance was "on his own" he was actually playing off his direct opponent. I note that Lappin did that a lot last year, but was rarely criticised for it or referred to as a sweeper because of it.

It might just mean that no-one was willing to pay him what he wants and we're stupid enough to offer him more than 200K...

Thats beside the point. If he hated pagan, he would go regardless. And I reckon lots of clubs would pay around the $300 mark for him.

or that the match committee value his role more than some supporters who have decided he has to go.

Same thing...?

Lance is woth 250 to 275K at most. Another club might be prepared to offer more but thats how it goes when trying to get someone from another club.
Kossy was worth 400k and we and Sydney offered 500 to try and get him.
Would seem to be the wrong move to sign him up now. Better to wait and see how he goes for the next 4 games and then see what other clubs interests are in him.

Re-signing Lance at this point of the season would just be plain stupid. We should at least give another club the opportunity to make a ridiculous over the top offer for him if they're so inclined.

This can only mean that his manager has sussed out the offers from other clubs and he's not getting offered what he wants, so he figures he may as well stay at Carlton where the fans lower their expectations to match his performance, and he knows he'll never truely be held accountable for his form cause he kicked 70 goals once a lifetime ago and nothing else really matters as someone will always make an excuse for him ...

Those words beautifully sum up another player on our list: Brendan Fevola.

This post isn't about Lance staying or going, i'm just making a point.

I get frustrated when defensive and second efforts by Brendan are so highly applauded by commentators, when in reality, on the money that he is on, and being judged a league footballer playing the highest level, they should be mandatory.

I don't think i've ever seen Lance snap on the field and give away senseless free kicks like Fevola does. Whilst there is no doubt that his body isn't in the proper shape to successfully play modern football, I think that he isn't the only person on the list with such problems with discipline.

(Sorry, off on a bit of a tangent).

I understand exactly where your coming from, BUT, Lance is probably favourite for B&F this year, and although we have had a crap year, even you or me could have one, still, he has done the best he could do with the team he has around him. I want Lance to stay, i recon he is too good to let go, CHF or CHB he can dominate. But we should definatly wait till the end of the season to sign him.

Negative view pffft.
Lance has been in our best players in 5 out of 18 games.
Thats not a negative view, thats a lamentable fact.
Out of our first 10 games, Lance was in the best players once.
If Lance gets near the B&F, it will be an indictment on the Carlton Football Club.

BTW, my negative view on Lance is related to his negative output.
I make my assessments on facts not emotion or last weeks game.
Who needs to have a good hard look?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

In my opinion this is a test to see if our match committee and board (remember they are having a huge in-put into the resigning process) are strong visionaries or weak livered, limp wristed fools. Lance has not played well this year. Lance has not played well since Hamil left! Lance starts to put in when his contract is up for renewal. Are we to be fooled yet again. Are we going to put up with his weak will, not being able to prepare his body, half hearted efforts - or while he has some currency - get something worthwhile for him - a first round draft pick!!!

It's simple as far as I'm concerned. Unless we can get someone like Bartel in a deal with Lance, or a very early pick which seems a bit unlikely, then Lance should stay. I don't want opposition clubs' fringe players who might come good but most likely won't improve. I want real quality for him, be that in the form of a quality player like Bartel or in high draft choices. Quality 25 turning 26 year old KPPs with close to 180 games experience under their belts are not dime a dozen.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Lance has almost as many negatives as he does positives. How many other 25/26yo KPPs couldn't run out of sight on a dark night?

I'm not sure if I prefer to keep him or trade him, I just hope that whatever we do ultimately benefits my club.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Hey Speedy, stay off the gear, mate .

It's how many of those 90 odd games he's played since 2000 that have been "quality" that remains the issue. Obviously on a reduced salary part of the issue goes away, but one suspects no matter how much he's earning people will expect Lance circa 2000 to show up every week, and that this will continue to only happen 4 or 5 times a season ie. Enough to convice the Lanceophiles that we should keep him, and not enough to lift this club off the bottom of the ladder.

Wojee when Lance was in All-Australian form he couldn't run out of sight on a dark night then either. It's just a part of Lance's game that I and others have come to accept. How many other KPPs have the footy smarts of Lance?

As I said I wouldn't be averse to trading Lance but I don't want us to be sold short on any deal. We're giving up quality, so we can demand quality in return. No second-rate players, I would want someone the calibre of Bartel as I said above.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.