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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:14 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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the end of his career? No, you'd have thought he'd he worth something pretty good given his games record and goal ability. That being said, Geelong and Richmond wouldn't touch him after Houlihan related experiences.

the end of his career at Carlton? I think so. All along Houlihan has been after a gig in the midfield, and other than a couple of go's (including a BOG against Port), he hasn't been given that opportunity. Why? Does Pagan not see that as his role? Is Pagan insisting on him becoming a very solid BP before moving him up? If thats the case, does anyone see him being able to do that ? Not me.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:22 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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ryan2000 wrote:
I've had enough of him too! In fact, he passed my limit when he chickend out of a contest 10mtrs from where i was sitting in the last match at optus! If ever you needed to show some balls houlihan, that match was it! And you failed - so i've lost full faith in him.

Played a fantastic game for the ants last week and took a screamer of a mark (which i rarely seen him do!) but he is still weak and a coward!

His trade value will always be crap, mainly due to his last name, but as much as i hate him - i think we need to keep him! But don't be giving him the 'Prenda / Revolving door' treatment and bringing him back into the seniors after one good game~! Send him back there for the rest of the year - play him in the midfield and tell him to grow some balls.
Hopefully, next pre-season we see a different Houlihan. If not.............just delist him.
But hios contracted next year so i'd rather get something for our money rather than just give him a years pay and tell him to piss off!



Not a fan of Houlihans and never really have been but I dont like the word coward...I labelled him as soft etc but every player who runs out on the park needs some courage to be there so I think coward is way over the top and in bad taste and we shouldnt be describing players as cowards ever...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:26 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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He has something to give.

When Fev names him as the player he most likes receiving the ball from, that has to count for something.

Yes his shirking shits me, but if he shirks once and delivers the ball lace out 3 times then I'd take him in my side.

It's when he does neither (like the past few weeks) that he cops it the most, and rightly so.

But surely after we've invested 400k a year into a key forward we should at least take some notice of who he enjoys getting the ball from.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:45 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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molsey wrote:
the end of his career? No, you'd have thought he'd he worth something pretty good given his games record and goal ability. That being said, Geelong and Richmond wouldn't touch him after Houlihan related experiences.

the end of his career at Carlton? I think so. All along Houlihan has been after a gig in the midfield, and other than a couple of go's (including a BOG against Port), he hasn't been given that opportunity. Why? Does Pagan not see that as his role? Is Pagan insisting on him becoming a very solid BP before moving him up? If thats the case, does anyone see him being able to do that ? Not me.


Houlihan is a half-forward/winger. That is where he plays his best. Why Pagan refuses to use him there is a mystery, especially considering we are crying out for ball carriers/line breakers.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:54 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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He's too slow for the midfield we're building. Trade him for a second rounder.

Fev will learn to enjoy getting laces out from Muph and Simmo :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:58 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Well said Elwood - never thought I'd see the day when you came to Houlihan's defence :wink:

You are spot on about accusations of cowardice being thrown around.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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The last quarter yesterday once again emphasised why we need players of his ilk. At key moments of the game the inability to hit targets cost us chances to move the ball up the field quickly and create scoring opportunities. The turnovers by Morrell and Carrazzo were crucial.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:59 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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bluehammer wrote:
He has something to give.

When Fev names him as the player he most likes receiving the ball from, that has to count for something.


They are best mates. And Houls always tries to give the ball off to Fev first, other players are his second option.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:45 pm 
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Garry Crane

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He is contracted for one more year.

There is some currency; if we offer him to a club for free for one year (i.e Carlton pays his wages till the end of his contract, in return for an early second round pick or trade for someone like Mal Michael or Angelo Lekkas)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Dukes wrote:
The last quarter yesterday once again emphasised why we need players of his ilk. At key moments of the game the inability to hit targets cost us chances to move the ball up the field quickly and create scoring opportunities. The turnovers by Morrell and Carrazzo were crucial.


You can't really be suggesting that its Houligan's delivery that is going to save him. His delivery against Hawthorn was pathetic, turnovers, kicks to the opposition and OOB.

No, he's GAWN.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:52 pm 
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formerly Fevola

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Angelo Lekkas ?????? If we did that I would throw away my membership..................


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:17 pm 
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Robert Walls

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The Vet wrote:
You can't really be suggesting that its Houligan's delivery that is going to save him. His delivery against Hawthorn was pathetic, turnovers, kicks to the opposition and OOB.



The Vet wrote:
Quote:
To be honest, I remember him far more for his clangers.


Time to improve your memory.


Last edited by BlueWorld on Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:21 pm 
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John Nicholls

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The fact that Denis is playing him in the 2s, instead of the 1s, at this time of the year suggests that Houlihan might be in a bit of trouble.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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It's no coincidence that we have improved without him in the team because he is the biggest downhill skier on the list.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:16 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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BlueWorld wrote:
The Vet wrote:
You can't really be suggesting that its Houligan's delivery that is going to save him. His delivery against Hawthorn was pathetic, turnovers, kicks to the opposition and OOB.



The Vet wrote:
Quote:
To be honest, I remember him far more for his clangers.


Time to improve your memory.


My recollection was that was my point - his delivery was appalling, and I remebered his clangers not his pin point deliveries. Not sure what you are trying to say.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:21 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I'm sorry, but he is not a great deliverer of the pill.

I too recall most of his passes ending up short, or long, or wide.

His skills are over-rated IMHO

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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bluechucky wrote:
I'm sorry, but he is not a great deliverer of the pill.

I too recall most of his passes ending up short, or long, or wide.

His skills are over-rated IMHO



I believe he over estimates his left side skills (by about 10/15 metres) he invariably provides a clanger on his left side, however his right side is pretty good.
:wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:58 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Quote:
My recollection was that was my point - his delivery was appalling, and I remebered his clangers not his pin point deliveries. Not sure what you are trying to say.


The Vet maybe you should watch the match again & try to concentrate on everything. Hit a target many times. Most of the mistakes he makes are because he's not afraid to take risks. Was equal highest for goal assists last I saw those stats. Are you aware that Fev nominated him as the player he most likes being on the end of & has scored most goals from? He seems to rate his ability to hit a target.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:04 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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bluechucky wrote:
I'm sorry, but he is not a great deliverer of the pill.

I too recall most of his passes ending up short, or long, or wide.

His skills are over-rated IMHO


You're joking right?

How many times does he need to hit Fev lace out for you to be convinced? He's possibly the best kick to position that we have, his skills are not overrated at all, they're actually excellent. Houlihan has the skills, his problem is his toughness.

The problem is that he takes risks; risks invariably don't always come off otherwise they wouldn't be called 'risks'. He costs us badly on occasion because he takes risks. Taking risks is part of the game. But Houlihan is a play-maker. When you're a play-maker sometimes the play you're trying to make won't come off. Yes it's frustrating, but I won't blame a player who clearly has the skills for backing himself to hit a target when he has the footy unless the target to whom the kick is intended is a manifestly unrealistic option in the given situation.

If I was a forward at the club I would want Houlihan delivering it to me every time. He makes a few mistakes and he does have his shortcomings but his skills are not one of them.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:07 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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I think someone needs to talk to Denis and get his honest thoughts on Houls. Otherwise we don't know how he feels about him.

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