Does anyone else see the irony in this? I wonder how Kouta (and his bag of money) felt accepting 'best clubman' after Nick's words.

It's actually quite dissapointing that we'd go to our captain for best clubman... I would of thought that was part of the job.

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Patrick Smith - Just another reason to HATE Essendon*!

Hey Knackers..........

you thought that was bad.......you should have seen
the highlights package...for the second half of the year.......!

one was Campo picking the ball up off the ground......the
other was Stevo kicking out from full back......without
kicking it to himself........!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

The same bags of money he took a reduction for the club when asked?

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Maybe now that Kouta's received all these awards the club might ask him to give back to the club by taking a paycut next year.

The mere fact that Big Nick has said what he said fully supports the theory that those uncontracted senior players who wish the gravy train to continue are for themselves only. Show them the door.

I have enjoyed great years playing footy and this year as a club was our worst. I have played with the one club for 14 years and at my age it would be easy to have just packed it in and said to hard. We finally broke through for a win in the final round.

Im going to be back next year to help the club rebuild despite opportunities to play elsewhere. I believe that it is the least I can do after all the good times I have enjoyed there.

I would like to think our senior player share similar thoughts. If the three were to stay on and put the club first it would be great. But even more so wouldnt it fantastic for them to show some real leadership and mentor the young blokes in a positive way.

At least then in few years time they could look at a successful Carlton running around and think I helped them achieve this. Premerships arnt the only things players should feel proud about.

And yet many are theorising on what we could get for trading most of the players that Nicholls' speech was aimed at. So what do we want, a mutual unconditional loyalty, or the ability for the club to treat a player how they like; ie, you'll sign for this much or its goodbye, and even if you do sign we'll probably try and trade you anyway.

Life is so much more simple when there 18 against 18 on a patch of grass.

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Camel, when will you get it. The players have to be loyal, we don't

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Really. I would never have guessed.

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There was a key word in Nick's speech .... "compromise". It wasn't about players giving and the Club discarding them, it was about looking after each other. Give and take in both directions.

Funnily enough, there seems to be lots of support for the notion that the Club has looked after these players very well, and that the offers which have been made have been fair and reasonable. I certainly have not seen many supporting the idea of Lappin receiving a 3 year deal from the Blues. So where is the problem with questioning why they cannot do what many other players have done in recent times, accept the reasonable terms and go forward?

Apologies Kaptain, didn't mean to 'dis' your man. I am just bemused at why you would give your highest paid player, your captain and B & F winner, the Best Clubman award! Who allocates this award? Could we not find ANYBODY else who might have been worthy?

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Patrick Smith - Just another reason to HATE Essendon*!

Perhaps he earned it.

Yep, I hear you Heady, and agree with you on the "compromise" scenario. I just get very cynical at this time of year with the whole loyalty v trade scenarios that are likely to occur. It's a time of year that brings as much anguish as it does excitement.

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I dont like Jack but have alwaysd said that what he said to Judas was 1005 the right thing to say!

Hamill is still the only player to leave that we actually wanted to stay

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Stay tuned We're in for a BUMPY ride

And the same players have managers assessing offers from other clubs.

Repeat again, a lot different to Brisbane and St. Kilda players who are accepting $200k below what they could get elsewhere.

Lenny Hayes says St. kilda players are about creating their own history, give us players who have that attitude and trade value wouldn't come into it, but only Addison apples are good enough for Carlton's Mr. Eds.

Fair point, Knackers. I do agree that the "best clubman" is an award for a player who is a hard worker without being a star, like your Digby Morell, Prenda type players. A bit like the "encouragement awards" at primary school.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Come on Vintage, you can't compare the St. Kilda situation to ours.

St Kilda is on the verge of glory and will sacrifice individual reward for team success. Brisbane did this too, when there is a carrot of playing in flag-winning sides then naturally you're going to be more inclined to sacrificing a bit of cash in order to play with your mates in a premiership. When you're not quite on the verge of a premiership, the players would feel as though they might as well take the money if they're not going to be experiencing any premiership glory anytime soon.

Last time I checked Vintage, Carlton weren't on the cusp of a flag. St Kilda are. Brisbane spent 4 years up the top, why would you not take a bit less in order to achieve more? You might think it's selfish but Carlton aren't in that position. If we were knocking on the door of a premiership I have little doubt that our players' attitudes would be like those of the players at St. Kilda etc.

But we're not in that position. It's ok to paint Carlton's players as mercenaries Vintage and the oppositions' as philanthropists but this whole issue is a reflection of how you're travelling as a club, i.e. realistic chance of quick success = higher likelihood of staying on less money.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Blues 2006,

Mercenaries? Never said that, players are wanting the most money they can get and the club are offering what they believe the players are worth. Pretty simple equation and players can decide what they want to do.

Carlton not like St. Kilda? I'm sorry, in times of trouble Big Nick comes to me, speaking words of wisdom, play for the jumper. We're exactly like St. Kilda because we want the young players at the club who in time hopefully will be in contention for a flag, to see the right exmple set by the senior players and have a real football club culture set in place. We're just like St. kilda.

Also there is the issue of helping out the club when they are trying to work the way out of financial trouble.

I'm not saying that the players are right or wrong, Vintage. All I'm saying is that from a players' perspective, St. Kilda would be silly not to take less money because the prospect of sucess is as high as it will ever be. In Carlton's case, from a players' perspective there wouldn't be as much reason to take less money because the carrot of a premiership is not dangling in front of them. If Carlton was in St Kilda's position, do you really have any doubt that our attitude would be the same as theirs is right now, and what Brisbane's was for the last five years?

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

It's about setting the right example for the younger players and establishing the right culture. All Big Nick was saying was if you want to be a one club player then having the ideal of playing for the jumper/club. Look, seeing the young blokes at the B&F last night I felt sorry for them, because they seem very bounded together as teammates but they haven't a core of older blokes doing the hard yards for them on and off the field.

If our older players who aren't likely to be around long enough for our next premiership want to play in a side that has a chance in the next 2-3 years, can you blame them for wanting to leave?