Does anyone know when Denis Pagan's contract expires?

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I still blame the bad recruitment by Parkin/Britain, to this day we are still hurting because of the bad recruitment in the past, we don't have enough 150+ games experienced players. We don't have good players and this is not Pagan's fault. No other coach in the league had to go through what Pagan is going through now, that is, re-building from scratch, other teams still have some experienced players when they are re-building but we only a had a few so we had to re-built almost from 0.

The draft system doesn't allow any team to re-build fast, you only get to pick a player from every 16th pick (on average). How many good players do you guys think there are in each year's draft? Not a lot to be honest. And it doesn't help us at all when most of the teams in the league are re-building as well so they too are looking for elite young stars at the same time as us.

Where the hell can Pagan get those players with 150+ games of experience that we are desperately needed now? Don't blame the game plan because if we have good players any game plan can win us games.

End of 2008....

If he stays, there will be no club, because there will be no members.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

I haven't been around that long, but the one thing I've realised during my time supporting the Blues is that it matters not at all who is coach.

I dont no what point you are trying to make here .
Our pick 9 has had just as much time to develop in the twos and struggles to get a kick .

Are you trying to say that sitting Russel on the bench for three games and bringing him on for cameo performances is harmful and we should have left him in the twos until round five to play him.

I reckon wallace will be saying to himself I wished I'd played him earlier


Polo is just another example on how are players are not developing

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Don't you? That's a pity.

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Was talking to a mate, we can remove Pagan (depending on clauses in his contract).

Tell him to coach the Bullants and get Mitchell to coach the seniors.

Make him earn his money in some way, if he can't hack the "demotion", then he can resign.

It is dependent on his contract of course, but this seriously cannot go on.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

We just don't have enough depth to our midfield rotations and getting beaten in the midfield means our forward line doesn't get enough opprtunities or the ball delivered properly. IMO opposition teams simply rotate their onballers and run Bentick Carrazzo Kouta and Houla into the ground and with Stevens tagged out of it and they have us beaten.

IMO we need two more players of the Stevens calibre in the midfield and some more pace around the ground. Players who can run all day and still deliver with skill. Because we spend so much of the game chasing the opposition our players start to tire andf then their skill level drops.

Murphy is only just starting his career and will get better but I think we need at least two more first round picks on ball.

Stevens should be who we shop around next year for more draft picks in the super draft , he is weak , soft and very over rated.

On Pagan it is a worry that a coach can't fire up his team for a game as big as this was for us versus the filth, signs aren't good and i think its clear the team has little to no respect for him.

(What was with leaving Clement free across half back for so long in the 3rd quarter too ?? )

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Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

does anyone have a transcript of his half time speech .

that I would love to hear.

It must have been inspiring particually after we had just snatched the lead

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They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

A big bodied midfielder who can run but is also physical and a lightning quick midfielder with skill need to be targeted in the second and third rounds. I'd sacrifice Houla for another pick but we wouldn't get a decent pick for a pretty boy and squib.

The team. As a unit. This does include the coach.


Do you feel this is due to all, some or most of the players being incapable? Do you feel that a lack of skills shown on the field is entirely due to Denis not working on them? Do you feel Denis actually stripped their right to individuality or do you feel that the professionalism that was sorely lacking from the CFC was more due to player empowerment being used when it shouldn't have been (ie. 1997 onwards)?


What are our strengths in your opinion?
Maybe our players should be fitter, everyone else can do what we do.
Maybe we cost ourselves the portion of the game we rotate these players off for because the others aren't ready.
Ok there's a strength, but what good is a forward line without the ball going down their end, what do you think Denis is trying to do to shelter our young midfield?

Who said Denis doesn't get some of the blame? Who says Denis gets all of the blame? Who says Denis is doing the wrong thing? Who says the players aren't able to follow through with what he wants them to do? Who says that could be for a lot of different reasons?

Who says any of us have any real idea? Who says some of us do? Who thinks anyone is still reading this? Who thinks too many questions are being asked? Who thinks not enough questions are being asked?

On and on and on it goes, where will it stop, nobody knows.

Questioning a coach, coaching a developing 22, with so little real depth it makes you want to cry, about why is his team is shit and why he can't do anything more about it, is becoming a fine art amongst Carlton supporters.

Geeing up our players would be nice, but do you want them to go and win a flag this year? Next year? Where does that place Carlton long term?

We are still educating a lot of our 22 because in reality a lot of them should be on the periphery of a side, not smack bang in the middle of it.

But there's nowhere for them to hide when they get scared, not many they can turn around and pass the ball to, and they won't admit that it happens to the media or to us, but it happens.


See above.

jimmae, it seems that you think this horrible mess we've been in for the last 4 years is totally due to the playing group. That's good for you, but I disagree.

I'm not going to get into a slanging match with you. I have formed my own opinion of Pagan and his methods, and I'm very comfortable with it. Early on I was a strong supporter of Denis but I have seen next to no improvement in the overall performance of the team, and I don't think he should be excluded from criticism.

You think Denis is untouchable, good for you. You can keep justifying it to yourself all you like, but I think you'll find that you won't be changing anyone else's mind. Certainly not mine.

i have backed pagan time and time again over the last few years, but to be honest i think he is past it. my uncle is a very astute football follower who supports North Melbourne. he told me 4 years ago that pagan was garbage as a coach. i didn't believe him at the time. i had been sold on the pagan dream. after all, his record spoke for itself. well the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and i am really starting to wonder what is going on within the ranks at carlton. why is it the a bloke like matthew lappin can play for Australia in the International rules game and star, and yet when he runs out in the carlton jumper is clearly lacking any passion for the game. IMHO pagan has lost the players. these blokes seem to drop their bundle.

today's result has been coming for weeks. they haven't been playing well since round 1. pagan's decision to move lance back last week against the tigers was abysmal. Lance's interview on triple M today after the game smacked of someone who has no idea why his coach is playing him the way he is. if the bloke in question can't understand his coaches decision making processes then what hope have we got? there is obvious dissention amongst the ranks. look at fev's comments on the footy show. look at houlihan and stevens arguing out on the field today. players point at each other time and again on the ground. the spirit amongst the group (from the outside looking in) seems very poor.

pagan is a man out of ideas IMO. his old game plan of getting the ball and kicking it long on every occasion fell apart without wayne carey roaming the ground. now he has gone 180 degrees and its kick it short at all costs. maintain possessiom. flood back. the players look like they have no idea what is going on. in fact how many times do you see players standing there not moving at all???? i'm sure it is because they don't know what the hell they are supposed to be doing.

the worst thing that happened to this club was 10 wins in 2004 and and the wizzer win. firstly, we missed out on quality players in the draft but didn't advance the club in any way shape or form. then with the wizzer win resulted in the board getting way to excited and giving pagan a 3 year extension. i don't know that i can stand another 2 years (after this year) of pagan making mindnumbing decisions, selections and reactive moves from teh coaches box. although i don't like Al Clarkson's game plan, his philosophy has been spot on. get the kids and play them. don't waste time with players that aren't going to take you forward. don't recruit players that are past their prime and use by date. and kudos to hawthorn for not getting over-excited by hawthorn's early form and giving clarko a 3 year cointract. they will look at it when the time is right, and give him another year.

we are in a dark dark place at the moment,a nd although their may be some light at the end of the tunnel, the end of the tunnel is a long way off just yet. we have been cursed by poor decisions for almost a decade now, and i just want positivity to come back to the club. the positives are there. sometimes they are difficult to see, but they are there. we have 3 or fours kids taht are going to be out and out stars. waite, murphy, and walker are gonna be stars. fev is a star. we had a kid debut today that we all hope is gonna the CHF we have been dying for. but for god's sake, DP need to be put on notice, you are expendable.

He is the wrong coach at the wrong club at the wrong time - simple as that.

We can sit back and not do anything about it, or let the club know strongly and loudly that it's time for him to go.

Not only will the Blues not advance under him, we will decline, possibly to the point of having to merge or fold completely.

It sounds dramatic, but right now, it's what I believe!

Rich

(mods, please dont combine into another thread)

I don't understand the open forward line, i mean for 5 weeks we have seen it NOT work, i just don't get it, why can't we try something different, kick it loing like we did in 2004, were not good enough to play possession footy. Everytime we get a fast break we have to stop and go sideways which is crap.

Ah... why? You've added nothing new or ground breaking!

Who will that leave to carry our midfield and get tagged every week?

OMG, just reading some crap Pagan is talking about, "back to the drawing board", are you serious, you have had 4 years and shown nothing, there was never a plan, let alone somehting on the drawing board, what a load of shit, it's this crap from him that makes me sick. THE SAME CRAP every week, the same structure that doesnt work, if we didnt have him locked in for cash, he would be gone, i feel like going to training and just ask him wtf he does every week.

"OK, boys, we might try the same thing as last week, just try it again, it will work eventually"

1000 Legends in for $1000 - Pagan Out!!!

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