So youre saying the clubs future was at Optus Oval ?

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I'm saying that despite what many thought at the time they had no plan and were duped by the AFL.

Really clever move rushing into agreeing to that move wasn't it? We could have easily stayed at OO for longer and it would have made absolutely no difference to our position today.

Look at the way Geelong milk thier stadium. It is was just as crappy as OO but they somehow got everybody on board (gov't AFL, media, community) and they have made it work. Thier new stand is just as big a dud as the legends stand was and is. remeber the sun in the eyes of coaches last year.

Now we are told that the AFL might want to take it over as a safety net in case TD or MCG are unavailable.

Personally I have lost interest in the club but I am proud to say that I argued as hard as I could against that shit move. Others didn't.

It will all culminate in what I am predicting will be the lowest TD crowd ever rcorded this Sunday for Carlton v Port.

Won't Collo be a pround man on that day.

Back then Kermit, they pulled the wool over your eyes. There was not enough people getting answers to their questions, and all decisions were rubber stamped. Members allowed them to.

A good club is underpinned by transparency, debate and democracy. Democracy for subjects that are only informed with part of a plan, lacking detail is not democracy; its moreso rubberstamping and based on coersion. Something very close to Carlton these days.

Interesting to note though, speaking of past players, on "grumpy old men" tonight Jim Buckley (who maintains he's apolitical), says something along the lines of...[there are enough smart people around Carlton that care too much for this football club to let it implode]....for all that's worth...yeah, yeah yeah...that's nice.

Show me the dollars.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

KERMIT i really dont understand how you can sit there and say that we were duped by Collo... We were in a position that we had to leave.

How is it a shit move???And youre proud that you fought against us leaving Optus??? You mean where we were playing in front of 22k .. the sponsors facilities were a disgrace... and we wernt making money???

you have to be kidding me!!!... you cant seriously sit there with a straight face.. and i know youre not DUMB.. and just pretend to be that daft that you actually think moving away from Optus oval was wrong???

Seriously??

You think the club should have stayed at the decaying Optus do you?
And its future was guarateed playing in front of of 22,000..and youd be happy to take your kids there .. and allow them to grow up as the Heatley Stand was falling around your feet???

Youre kidding arent you???

Seriously???

Just say youre kidding.. and that you havent been sweating so pathertically for this long to tie the move in to something as trippy as ourt current predicament so you can say "I told you so!!"

Optus is our future??... REALLY???... youre serious???... The ground that has its most modern stand that nobody wants to sit in.. staring into the sun... ??... the modern Legends stand....that everyone hated sitting in.... The Pratt stand with it antiquitated sponsors boxes.. or the Gardiner stand?? with the leaks in the roof... or the Heatley stand??...no fire exits.. built on a wood.. and about to fall over..

Thats your vision is it???

And you wanna be taken seriously????

No night games...

No parking...

No opposition supporters.. and theyre the ones that pay.. cos we have our memberships..!!

Your vision is Princes Park forever??....

REALLY?????

.............. youre not tricking are ya???.......Seriously????... Princes Park????... i mean i love it .. and everything...and first went there in the early seventies as a tiny kid... but really???,.... you looking into the future is PP????

....you dont have your fingers crossed do you???

Fancy comparing Melbournes sporting facilities and business opportunities with Geelongs... Geelong is another city you know???

Cant have a Geelong with a home ground in Melb.. and you cant abandon the city of Geelong....

.. but naaaaahhh.. i dont reckon youre serious...

Are you?????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

think kermit is saying that yes we accepts that we had to leave but it could probably have been delayed a bit (perhaps an extra season or two) in order for full and proper due dilligence to be carried out and for all the facts to be conveyed to members - think there were a fair few supporters back there that accepted that we had to move but wanted a better deal to be struck - the mix of games etc.

According to the board we were supposed to receive $3mill for the move and because we have only received $2.5 mill and that is the cause of our current financial troubles. What they fail to explain is
- whether they examined the impact on the social club ($1mill+ revenue lost)
- the cost to maintain the ground (gone from $3-400k per annum at the time of move to $3mill now)
- sold the $3mill payment (now 2.5mill) as incentive to move/break ground contract with AFL to schedule matches there (ie it goes into to servicing debt) whereas the most recent reports in the media have indicated that the funds were to cover the breaking contracts with sponsors, cleaning, catering etc (ie we didnt receive any REAL $$$ to help with our bottom line).

Not to mention that had the 3mill been real cash it would have lasted under 1 season due to ground upkeep costs and loss of social club revenue

Did we really have to move then and there? Could we have negotiated a better deal/mix of games? - ie more MCG games, perhaps interstate matches at optus etc.

If the AFL were adamant at the time that a MCG home ground deal would be unacceptable I find it astounding that no one at the club has come out to criticise the AFLs backflip a few months later with the collingwood-MCG deal

Spot on 4thchicken.

Synbad how many of the things we were promised at the time have come to light? Please let us know Synbad how many of the thoroughly researched promises have eventuated?????

Virtually nothing....

I don't think we are in any better position than we were 2 years ago either on or off the field.

As you have said repeatedly we moved to TD and what else??????? I agreee with you what else?????

Money is still a problem, members are down, playing list still not developing (except for Murphy), Board and Administration are still way below par and now the AFL what to take over the ground lease from us.

Compare Malouf with Essendon*'s CEO on 927 this morning and you realise just how bad we are travelling.

I know we had to move but we should have shown more strength and demanded a better deal and taken all the membership with us instead of dividing the club.

Synbad I find it a little perplexing that you are happy to critcise the Baord and club when you feel like but when others do you attack them.

KERMIT.. i dont have a problem with criticising the board where its due.
I dont have a problem with any constructive criticism.. but to sit there and say they rolled us because they beamed us out of PP is ridiculous.
You were about to say "TThey didnt take us to the G".. because you have an MCC membership.. yet todays story is all about how clubs are losing 40k a game there..

We couldnt stay at Optus for another couple of years like 4th chicken suggests because we were paid money up front to leave and they wouldnt give us that money if we stayed...

We could not stay at PP FULL STOP!!!... the MCC were rolled by the AFL... The Brisbane Lions were rolled by the AFL.. probvably cost them their 4 in a row... the Saints have been rolled by the AFL.. and more importantly we have been rolled by the AFL... its taking on City Hall.. youre NEVER going to win...

So its childish to think we would win....

As for how far behind we are.. yes we are very far behind.. no argument.. but you can only focus on the issues that we have control over .. not impossible ones.. (ie match schedules and staying at Optus even for another cpl of years... )If we stayed there 2 more years like 4th chicken with all the wisdom of Solomon suggests... how would that have benefited us?

We should have left Optus / PP TEN or so years ago.. end of story...

the rest is bullshit!!!.. we had to leave.. we left and we took what we could!!!

End of story!

I agree with you the club is very bare of ideas... its shocking that its so.

The jumper (alternative) could have been marketed as a competition with a couple of options and SMS polling.. and newspaper coverege etc.. and given the club some exposure whilst getting the supporters involved in the process and milking the thing...

But again.. we put out the safe alternative ... Smorgon launched it to launch his own presidenship.

Just a lack of imagination...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I think its time we all stop whinging and realise that the club cheated the salary cap, cheated its supporters and realise that its the clubs fault that we are in this position.............Not the AFL.

Time to move on, be proactive and not rely on anybody else to get us out of the mire.

As opposed to how Essendon* handled the matter with thier members last night. A class act which allows members to have thier say, produces all the facts (including legal advise on the matter) and then settle on a soft alternative with a bigger red sash.

The AFL will accept it because they are shit scared of Essendon* and Collingwood. We are there to push around and therefore we get our alternative srip released to members over the website.

Carlton are a piss poor excuse for a club at the moment. Get rid of the entire board and Maloouf.

Agree totally.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

me too.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

... and replace them with the bluebirds!

I can understand St Kilda, but why don't WE have cheerleaders?

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Patrick Smith - Just another reason to HATE Essendon*!

Knackers this is the entire point in a nutshell.

Why dont we have cheerleaders - we had them in 1979 for christ sake.

We were the market leaders through the 70s and 80s, we recruited players, we had corporate facilities, we were forward thinkers, we had cheerleaders.

We dont do any of this now - we are as Synbad says totally bereft of ideas - we need an influx of new modern and dynamic thinking.

Desparate times call for desparate measures not conservative ones.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

When’s the next AFL commission meeting?

“Thingsâ€

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There's so much I could say...

Sorry AGRO, neglected the 'tongue in cheek' emoticon.

I'd still like to see em back though. They are used successfully in basketball and rugby and no other AFL teams use them so you'd be hardly following the crowd. They cost, rather than generate income but find a sponsor for them and they will generate interest (and an increase in the sale of ponchos). Hey, it not THE answer, but it's a start. Besides the way we are playing it'd provide a welcome distraction.

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Patrick Smith - Just another reason to HATE Essendon*!

The difference, they had almost 40,000 signed members and good TV pr each Thursday night when they were shit. We've got 27,000 members. Plan or no plan that difference equates to some serious bucks.

How is it a class act to bullshit your way through a meeting whilst compromising on a design and ending up with the greatest abortion of a jumper in the history of the game?

The only class act in the alternative jumper debate is St. Kilda who've taken the initiative to actually "design" something rather than push a few colours around in photoshop.

The Saints won't get it right every time but by opening up the parameters on what's possible (thin vertical stripes, giant shield, adding yellow, etc) they've shown that they're a progressive club, given their supporters a greater array of options and created a new income stream into the bargain.

Essendon*?

Rich man's Carlton at the moment...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Agreed GWS. I'm disappointed we didn't try and milk the clash jumper for another sponsor like we did with the M&M's, Saints did with Yellow BigM's and North did with Orange.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

That's about the third time you've agreed with me over the last few weeks Game.

Gonna have to rethink some of my posts a little I think...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

It's a class act because they gave thier supporters a chance to have thier say in an open forum (remember what that was like) and then presented thier position to them which went down well.

The beauty is that they will probably never even wear it. We on the other hand will have to put up with a white jumper 2-3 times per year. At least it is the right colour for the club to run up the flag pole each week and for the board to take with them every time they have discussions with the AFL.