The best recruiters are the ones that do it 3 years after the draft was completed

I disagree Rhys.

Pagan went the recycled route to get strong bodies.
It was a calculated risk to enable us to play "direct collision footy".

Having our hands tied is a cop out.
We were back in the draft in the third round.

Players drafted later than the 3rd round in 2003 and still on AFL lists include Amon Buchanan, Michael Pettigrew, Daniel Jackson, Sam Fisher, Julian Rowe, Brent Hartigan, Andrew Raines and Michael Rischitelli.

Not including older players like Shane Tuck and Ben Hudson.

Danyle Pearce was available and overlooked.
Aaron Davey was available and overlooked.
Jacob Surjan was available and overlooked.

I'm not saying we were smart enough to draft any of these kids but lets not fool ourselves that there was no option. We had options, we consciously decided to take a particular course of action.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

BV,

Sold!!

think you miss the point - no one is saying that we would have picked up all of those players - however if we had ended up picking at least 1 of those players from the late round draft picks that we traded away then we would be a LOT better off than where we are now

That's deadset pathetic. The reason why we don't start well is because you've trained them to play defensively from the first bounce so that they are always second to the ball and chasing tail - and to teams that don't butcher the ball, you're toast.

Pagan, you fool, why don't you just tell them to have a run around and kick - heck...

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Agree. As supporters we must be patient and keep the faith in whoever is coach. At the moment it is Pagan and he must be given time to produce the goods and by simply getting rid of him now would undo all of his efforts into trying to get this footy club into decent shape.

The man has plenty of experience in footy and his previous track record warrants us supporters' backing of him.

Look.. some people dont get it...

even if we loved him.

The players dont want him there... hes a spent force at the club.

all were doing is wasting time now...

he must go.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

agree wholeheartedly - Its amazing how many people have been calling for the team to play in a more positive fashion since the start of the year. Yet despite that its taken till now for pagan to actually realise that it makes a huge difference to our on field performance (what makes it worse is that it required whitnall to point it out - ie was not obvious to pagan)

Who do the players want? Britain? So they all can have an easy ride, where gym work is only optional.
How hard is it to face Pagan when u are earning a couple of hundred grands per year.

If giving value for money is somehow relevant, Pagan would be the last person to be lecturing the players!

As for gym work, most AFL clubs have cut right back.
Building big strong, heavy bodies is another case of living in the past. The Pagan fixation with collision football has finally ended (3 years too late) and the realisation of lighter framed running midfielders has eventually arrived at Carlton.

In fact several of our players were instructed by the fitness staff to cut back on the weights and to lose some of the mass they had established.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Anybody who has gone into the field of battle will tell ya that part of ya plays for the coach.Our players dont do that.Pagan needs to change things soon play kids change the game plan rethink the way he goes about the caper .Otherwise he and his puppett Elshaugh can go else where.

Even Digby was asked to gain 10 kilos then to shed it...

Burnt...

Houlla looks way too big and has little mobility.. kind of like Goddard

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad,

genuine question here. You say our players don't want Pagan. I gather you have names. Now, I don't expect you to name them - but I am just wondering what sort of demographic they fit in the playing group? Is it throughout the group? Is it the older players? Is it the younger players? Is it the retreads that are about 22-26?
Just helps me make up my mind on the whole Pagan issue....

I'm not on Pagan's back, but I'm watching him closely.

The Pagan issue has been a non event for me, as I've held the view that a new coach would make little difference to the on field and off field situation at Carlton. We are in it deep. Furthermore, no coach can change the list right now, nor would they be able to supplement our list next year with a first round Ruckman, FB, CHB, and 2 midfielders. Thems the rules.

But my focus on Pagan has been ignited a bit of late, as I have been left dumbfounded with some of the MC decisions, let alone the fact that I recognise that the season 2006 is over for us.

There are several issues that need addressing in the second half if I'm to put up with the hope that Pagan may do something special for the remainder of his contract.

The Digby scenario is not the only one of its kind. This is a criminal act imo. Don't create a gorilla for a short term fix and plan for the long term.

I'm not against the fringe players having a shot this year, as you never know what they might show, as is the case with the kids. But a player in the VFL must be conditioned to a game plan and a position they are expected to fill in the seniors. This would enable them to continue their development in the seniors in the same/similar position/role. ie if a player does well as a ruck rover in the VFL, and gets the call up for the seniors and ends up on the pine or in a BP, then imo they have not been given an opportunity to hone in on their craft at the next level, and help build a team. It's a waste of time. Chopping and changing creates flexibility, sure, but not when we need structure; Pagans methodology leaves a lot to be desired. The message I get from the coaching efforts thus far in the season is that there is not alignment between Mitchell and Pagan imo. No synergy. No sense of purpose. No plan. Just hit and miss.

So what have we achieved whilst trying to plug up holes? Nothing! We cannot say that we have groomed anybody for any position this year to build on for 2007. This is a must. Murphy has made his position his very own, it wasn't made for him. He's a freak. Lucky for the MC.

Rotations has been my biggest issue. It's a fast game and its bloody intense. The interchange is not a 19th and 20th man anymore, it's refuge for a breather, and gives us the opportunity to keep the intensity up. Have a look at the effort in the first half last week. I ask were the players saving themselves to avoid a second half fade out.? Well that was the result imo and what else would you expect if they are not given a breather.

The kids. Whilst I did not expect them all to play in the first half, let alone all at once, but in the second half, I expect most to have a taste, and an opportunity to develop with more time on the field if their body and heart can withstand the pressure. We need to know, but more importantly they need to know what they can and can't do and what they've got to focus on in the preseason. Something like 3 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 3 weeks on, 2 weeks off, unless they thrive at the challenge. Russell, Kennedy are a must. Hartlett is a must. Bower must get a taste.

Play them in the position they are expected to grow in. Lets start building a team.

We need a ruckman to develop, and if Aisake and Batson are to be considered, then play them on the Ants firsts and lets see what they've got to offer in terms of effort, potential and ticker.

I've never been on Pagan's back and I'm staying off Pagan's back. I understand that it's a developent year for the team and the MC. But unless I see some commonsense and development of a team for the future in the second half, I'm going to come to Melbourne and get really nasty towards them.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Fair call. I am running out of patience with the MC too.

Not much commonsense around at the moment.

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Revenge is a dish best served cold

&

I AM PROUD SPONSOR OF THE CAROLINE WILSON HATE CLUB

Not sure how Houlihan's body has held him back this year. Played in the midfield for longer than any other year, up in our hard ball gets leaders and also racked at least 25 disposals per game.

The added weight has hardly hindered him given he was never lightening quick over the ground anyway.

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In WADA we trust

I thought Pagan said at the start of the year that our players were too light and getting brushed off the ball. At leat he's big enough now to get into the packs and lead our hard ball gets. Not sure that he lacks speed.

Bullocks if you think that we are too heavy. Did anyone see how much more stronger, heavier and quicker Port on the weekend.

Agreed, we are starting to get a little stronger, but that needs to continue.
Houlihan is playing much better at a heavier weight division.

It will be interesting to see how Murphy and Kennedy fill out.

Kennedy might be a goliath in a couple of seasons

_________________
Revenge is a dish best served cold

&

I AM PROUD SPONSOR OF THE CAROLINE WILSON HATE CLUB

BV, you telling me the likes of Treadra, Hall and Gehrig don't work out in the gym anymore.... That would please a few backmen.

Our guys are pretty skinny and weak, thats why we cannot hold onto a guy in a tackle and we cannot break out of any tackle.

Guys like Lappin and Bradley got lost on the way to the gym....