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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:36 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
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Location: Melbourne
If the club does monitor it, all the more reason for us to be brutally honest in our assessment of where the club's at.

It's not as if the board members ever get to sit in the outer and find out first-hand what their constituency thinks of the club.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:39 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am
Posts: 4827
dannyboy wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
I'm endorsing Molsey and Sydney Blues comments....if there is an increase in negative comments its commensurate with the clubs performance..
The Fitzroy supporters sat back, prayed, rubbed beads, chanted and hoped things would get better and let the club slip away......at least while we have proactive supporters who take the navy blue glasses off and who care enough to ask the hard questions I know we still have a decent club and thats a positive....
We want people posting what they think, not posting to be popular......


absolute crap - Fitzroy fought hard and got done by dirty deals by the AFL (who should have been assisting them) and by other clubs. If the climate was the same and the AFL treated all clubs the way they treated Fitzroy then Nth, Melbourne, Richmond and probably Carlton in iuts present state, would all be gone.


What are you talking about... the climate is the same...Kangas are being pushed North and roll over everytime the AFL tell them too...Geoff Walsh hasnt bailed from North and taken a demotion at Collingwood for nothing... and we are in semi receivership with the AFL running the club and they have us by the gonads...get the Navy Blue Glasses off and wake up.
What did Fitzroy do.....rattle tins, sell their players?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:41 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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The trouble with the internet (as opposed to a BBQ) is it goes round and round and round and round an on and on and on and on, forever...which in the end achieves very little apart from people jerking off to the sound of their own voice.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:47 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am
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verbs wrote:
The trouble with the internet (as opposed to a BBQ) is it goes round and round and round and round an on and on and on and on, forever...which in the end achieves very little apart from people jerking off to the sound of their own voice.


With over 5000 posts you have been giving yourself a fair workout....

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:50 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
verbs wrote:
The trouble with the internet (as opposed to a BBQ) is it goes round and round and round and round an on and on and on and on, forever...which in the end achieves very little apart from people jerking off to the sound of their own voice.


With over 5000 posts you have been giving yourself a fair workout....


I wasn't apportioning blame to anyone.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:54 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
verbs wrote:
The trouble with the internet (as opposed to a BBQ) is it goes round and round and round and round an on and on and on and on, forever...which in the end achieves very little apart from people jerking off to the sound of their own voice.


With over 5000 posts you have been giving yourself a fair workout....


ZING

Criticising board action or inaction is a right of every member, probably even a duty. Agitating for change is part of being a stakeholder which is what members are.

Denigrating Carlton the club and personal abuse of club officials who are doind their best, (even if it isnt good enough) is a completely diffreent scenario. All it does is create a further negative image for the club then it already has. You cant move forward as a club with factions and divisions which is what is happening at the moment.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:00 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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People are losing sight of Jarusa's hypothesis that the climate surrounding this website, and the alarming number of people who have chosen to cease posting here, can be validly assumed to be having the same impact on Carlton.

And anyone who claims this website is merely a vehicle for debate and discussion is either a) ignoring 95% of what's being written or b) has their head in the sand. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:00 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
I'm endorsing Molsey and Sydney Blues comments....if there is an increase in negative comments its commensurate with the clubs performance..
The Fitzroy supporters sat back, prayed, rubbed beads, chanted and hoped things would get better and let the club slip away......at least while we have proactive supporters who take the navy blue glasses off and who care enough to ask the hard questions I know we still have a decent club and thats a positive....
We want people posting what they think, not posting to be popular......


absolute crap - Fitzroy fought hard and got done by dirty deals by the AFL (who should have been assisting them) and by other clubs. If the climate was the same and the AFL treated all clubs the way they treated Fitzroy then Nth, Melbourne, Richmond and probably Carlton in iuts present state, would all be gone.


What are you talking about... the climate is the same...Kangas are being pushed North and roll over everytime the AFL tell them too...Geoff Walsh hasnt bailed from North and taken a demotion at Collingwood for nothing... and we are in semi receivership with the AFL running the club and they have us by the gonads...get the Navy Blue Glasses off and wake up.
What did Fitzroy do.....rattle tins, sell their players?



If Fitzroy had have received some of the money Nth, etc recieve they'd still be running around. We may complain about the AFL influence in Carlton but at least we are still here, still Carlton

FDitroy tried many things ,including the Board and some members risking much money on the pub and other ventures and to this day due to the hard work of the board and of the supporters it may still exist in its true form except that a heap of votes went missing and no one seems to know what happened to them. the bloke they should have been delivered to still has no idea what happened but that vote would have kept the club going rather than seeing it fold.

Its so easy for you to say 'rattle some tins' but their supporters worked their arses off but they were working against the wishes of the AFL and they died. Even when they found a way (via Nth) of keeping themselves at their home, they lost. They were given no choices and minimal help.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:12 pm
Posts: 1291
Location: Sydney
I'm one of the posters in the Crosisca thread that's bemoaning the excessive negativity in TC.

This thread is starting to turn into an argument whether posters should be allowed to post negative posts.

That isnt the issue at all!!

People are entitled to post their opinion - negative or otherwise. I'm a strong believer in that! If anything I've been far more negative than positive in my 3 years on these forums. If you could be stuffed searching, have a look at my past pro-tanking, anti-Whitnall etc posts.

I love a good rant as much as anyone here!!

So why am I complaining about the negativity? It's not so much the negativity itself. Negative or, as Synbad put it, "critical" posts are an absolute necessity as far as I'm concerned.

I reckon Synbad's critical posts are compelling reads. I find myself agreeing with most of the things he says. He's an intelligent, pragmatic and insightful poster AFAIC.

I would rate Synbad in my Top 3 posters on this site. Without some of his posts I would be left none the wiser with what's happening inside the club.

Negativity's fine as long as they are "critical posts" (ie. constructive criticism).

However....

it's when that negativity becomes all-encompassing, and is repeated again and again in multiple threads everyday it is no longer a "critical post" ... it becomes a "bitching and moaning" post....

I'm sure Synbad doesn't mean it to come out as a bitch and moan... he's obviously doing this to make sure we can form our own informed, educated opinion... the problem I have is with the volume of these posts (not just Synbad).... at the start it's great because you gain something from these posts.... but it's when it starts to get repetitive, even in threads where there is justified cause to find positives, that it becomes too much. There's only so much bitching and moaning one can take.

Just as much as i hate being bombarded with positivity for the sake of being positive, I hate being bombarded with negativity just for the sake of being negative.

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YARRAN!!





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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35987
Location: Half back flank
I get the gist of what jarusa's saying re the 'negative' posts affecting the site itself, & obviously it has turned some long term posters off involving themselves in football discussion (see Bluebernz' comments in the Crossisca thread)

Personally though I think the distinction between the effect on TC and the effect on memberships/the football club itself have become a bit blurred in this discussion...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:10 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21646
Location: North of the border
verbs wrote:
People are losing sight of Jarusa's hypothesis that the climate surrounding this website, and the alarming number of people who have chosen to cease posting here, can be validly assumed to be having the same impact on Carlton.

And anyone who claims this website is merely a vehicle for debate and discussion is either a) ignoring 95% of what's being written or b) has their head in the sand. :lol:



Verbs if people have ceased posting here it wouldn't be because of the negativity towards the club and the board. It would be due to the fact there is a fair bit of eliteness that goes on around here and various posters can either be ignored or ridiculed for their points of view if it doesn't fall in to line with theirs .

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They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:14 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:43 am
Posts: 5175
Location: Corner of Queen and Collins
Sydney Blue wrote:
Verbs if people have ceased posting here it wouldn't be because of the negativity towards the club and the board. It would be due to the fact there is a fair bit of eliteness that goes on around here and various posters can either be ignored or ridiculed for their points of view if it doesn't fall in to line with theirs .


It may be worth finding out who has left and why they left. Who has left?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:16 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Sydney Blue wrote:
verbs wrote:
People are losing sight of Jarusa's hypothesis that the climate surrounding this website, and the alarming number of people who have chosen to cease posting here, can be validly assumed to be having the same impact on Carlton.

And anyone who claims this website is merely a vehicle for debate and discussion is either a) ignoring 95% of what's being written or b) has their head in the sand. :lol:



Verbs if people have ceased posting here it wouldn't be because of the negativity towards the club and the board. It would be due to the fact there is a fair bit of eliteness that goes on around here and various posters can either be ignored or ridiculed for their points of view if it doesn't fall in to line with theirs .


As has been said, not everything is black and white.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:17 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21646
Location: North of the border
molsey wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Verbs if people have ceased posting here it wouldn't be because of the negativity towards the club and the board. It would be due to the fact there is a fair bit of eliteness that goes on around here and various posters can either be ignored or ridiculed for their points of view if it doesn't fall in to line with theirs .


It may be worth finding out who has left and why they left. Who has left?


I know EB left :lol:

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They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25623
Location: Bondi Beach
Mojo

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18068
Bomber-now-Blue

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:37 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Terra Australis
King Juan Carlos of Spain

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 40291
Location: seaside
I've thought about leaving.........!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:38 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am
Posts: 23123
Blue Vain wrote:
From humble beginnings, this has developed into a quality thread with some excellent mature debate.
That is why recognising diversity of opinion is so crucial IMO. Congratulations to all involved.


(Sorry Jars) :wink:


Totally agree, just logged on again after a few hours away and have been pleasantly surprised. It has really cheered me up reading some of the thoughtful expressions in this thread.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:40 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Posts: 23123
Bluebernz wrote:
I'm one of the posters in the Crosisca thread that's bemoaning the excessive negativity in TC.

This thread is starting to turn into an argument whether posters should be allowed to post negative posts.

That isnt the issue at all!!

People are entitled to post their opinion - negative or otherwise. I'm a strong believer in that! If anything I've been far more negative than positive in my 3 years on these forums. If you could be stuffed searching, have a look at my past pro-tanking, anti-Whitnall etc posts.

I love a good rant as much as anyone here!!

So why am I complaining about the negativity? It's not so much the negativity itself. Negative or, as Synbad put it, "critical" posts are an absolute necessity as far as I'm concerned.

I reckon Synbad's critical posts are compelling reads. I find myself agreeing with most of the things he says. He's an intelligent, pragmatic and insightful poster AFAIC.

I would rate Synbad in my Top 3 posters on this site. Without some of his posts I would be left none the wiser with what's happening inside the club.

Negativity's fine as long as they are "critical posts" (ie. constructive criticism).

However....

it's when that negativity becomes all-encompassing, and is repeated again and again in multiple threads everyday it is no longer a "critical post" ... it becomes a "bitching and moaning" post....

I'm sure Synbad doesn't mean it to come out as a bitch and moan... he's obviously doing this to make sure we can form our own informed, educated opinion... the problem I have is with the volume of these posts (not just Synbad).... at the start it's great because you gain something from these posts.... but it's when it starts to get repetitive, even in threads where there is justified cause to find positives, that it becomes too much. There's only so much bitching and moaning one can take.

Just as much as i hate being bombarded with positivity for the sake of being positive, I hate being bombarded with negativity just for the sake of being negative.


This a much more eloquent way of saying what I was trying to say. Thanks bluebernz.

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