The way you carry on about the maligned four, it sounds like you need a good orgasm Synbad .

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L.M 35-06

BM youre so witty....

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Maybe you two can get together and work on it.

Synbad and Bluemark - make love, not war!

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

Don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread already or not but one thing I'd do if I was Denis would be to have Kade Simpson in the side for the rest of the season, give him proper gametime and let's see how good he is.

I'd also show a bit more faith in players like Setanta. What was the point of starting Setanta and Eddie Betts on the bench in the last quarter on the weekend? OK they don't have to play every minute of every game but the game was gone anyway so why not at least keep them on the ground?

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

denis has to take the lead on leaderhip this week and set an example by dropping a few so called "leaders"

they may be letting the team down on the field - one way to start fixing it is to banish them for a spell...denis let it rip this week...who he replaces them is another question

Considering the list he inherited, the draft picks that we lost, and that EVERYONE considers we overachieved last year, and that we won the WC, I think criticising Pagan is a little premature...

If I was Denis, I'd eat a lot more grapes.

The man does not eat enough grapes!

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Exactly - a bit of perspective please.

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Synbad, you're broken record.

I think Steve is on the money with his comment, although I do think that Denis should come under scrutiny, just as any other person at the club should. But 7 or 8 weeks ago everyone loved Denis, he was a Pagan send as I put it once. Now, all of a sudden he's a hack. After the amount of time in the game he's had I don't buy it.

Put it this way, if I was given the choice of wiping every player from the list starting afresh with Pagan as head coach, or keeping every player on the list with any coach from any era ... I'd keep Pagan everytime I reckon.

Sure Denis may be a part of the problems our team is facing right now, but there appear to be so many problems that there are only so many Denis can be responsible for. Is Denis to blame for the club trading for the likes of O'Reilly, Mansfield et al? Is Denis to blame for rorting the salary cap and poor list management stemming back to the early and mid 90s? Some of these decisions are still hurting us...

...but we'll be back, I have no doubt in that. I know there'll be a few glitches along the way. But, at this stahe, I still have faith in Denis.

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exactly my point - the footballers are DUMB.

l'll say it if l may BM....I DO NOT WANT CAMPO IN THIS SIDE!!

How is Denis Pagan responsible?......as has been said..inherited a mess...on and off the ground....has tried every trick in the book to get us players...from Ireland to Wangaratta, ...its not like he has had a silver spoon welcome and the red carpet treatment like Wallace who rolled into Richmond with a bundle of high draft picks etc....
We have a A grade coach..we dont have enough A grade players..thats the problem...

I want Campo in the side...

IF...

He stops whinging, backchatting, diving and generally being a little shit.

And IF he can play the sort of quality football he's capable of whilst keeping his head down then he's more than welcome.

If I've got any criticisms of Denis it's that Camporeale wasn't given a week off after the dive.

Might have focussed some of the rest of the players a little going into the Tigers game.

Lance Whitnall looks like he's going to go down in history as one of the greatest wastes of talent ever. Campo isn't anywhere near that but he's always going to be held in lower esteem than he would be in the long term due to his inability to just get on with the game.

I feel sorry for Campo. FairDinkum he gets smashed every week and gets no support from umpires or teamates, he actually changed his game to accomodate DP's game plan (have a look at his tackle count) and people are still not happy. I would not be surprised if Campo got a better offer elsewhere and left at the end of the year. I for one would be disappointed if that occured. They aren't natural leaders, but they are good players and unfortunately because we don't have enough natural leaders we expect them to be both. Some players just aren't both and we must accept that. I don't know what is being said behind the scenes but what I do know is that neither Whitnall or Camporeale deserve this type of abuse, week in week out.

How was Denis Pagan outcoached?
What particular aspect of Saturdays game contributed to Richmond winning and us losing?
This game style has been at Carlton for 3 preseasons now.
It was good enough to see us improve our results enormously on the 2002 game style.

As Pagan repeatedly states. There is no rocket science to his gamestyle.
We get the ball to 30 metres out from goal as quickly as possible.
From there we make a contest.

On Saturday we got the ball inside 50 on 57 occasions.
From that we had 13 scoring shots.
That tells me that in simple terms, Richmond won more than 75% of the contests in our forward 50.
Did we make a reasonable contest? Not a chance.

The delivery might be shitful, the ball may come in along the ground 57 times.
Whatever the case, we should expect our forwards to win 50% of the contests or at least create a stoppage.

Our forwards didnt contest enough, they didnt chase enough and they didnt work hard enough.

Pagan moved Whitnall, Kouta, Carlos, Eddie, Jarrad, Longmuir, Lappin, Houlihan and Walker through the forward line.
Apart from getting a kick, he did what he could.

That sad fact is, the players didnt work hard enough.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

If Denis really wanted to send a message to the senior players he'd get Fev to return to the side via the Bullants. But I guess we could discuss ad nauseum the merits of implementing such a policy.

Rightly or wrongly, I think Denis rates Campo pretty highly, but agree that Good-Campo is good for us, but Bad-Campo is not.

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I think he should have had their spare defender manned up BV.

I think Teague on Stafford was silly but given our problems not sure what he could have done (hows that for an each way).

I think he should have put Walker on Couglan and Stevens somewhere else.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

This matchup business really annoys me.....Teague has no business being on Stafford ever....Stafford is a ruckman.......get a ruckman or very tall defender to man him. That means French or Deluca or Bryan...or maybe Norman...bit like asking Steve Nash to play on Shaq in the low post....its called common sense....

I think he should have switched DeLuca and Teague. Had Teague further up the ground where he can be more effective and not exposed DeLuca to the more mobile Simmonds. Having said that I don't think Simmonds or Stafford really damaged us.

As for comparing it to Nash on Shaq....hardly, Betts on Stafford maybe.

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And what happens next?
They put another defender there, and then another.
Exactly how North did it.

Each time it opens up their forward line more and congests ours.
We're better keeping it as open as possible and creating space for our forwards.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.