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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:09 am 
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Ken Hunter
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jezzasjockstrap wrote:
fair dinkum,still no respect for guys that try their guts out for you guys,
no wonder hamill left.

you guys reckon people should play for you for nothing but the privilege,you forget they have familys and have to look after them after footy.

typical liberal voters wait till johnny puts all of you on individual contracts, then we'll watch you scream and squirm.

lappins been in your top five for yrs

and obviously you can't read over here and you definitely have no comprehension skills otherwise you would understand what :

Harford has claimed Lappin had actually agreed to a new deal only to have it withdrawn by the club.

"He agreed to a two-year deal with another incentive on top of that," Harford said. "As soon as they came back with the incentive, it was taken off the table."

No wonder you guys are rabble


piss off troll

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:18 am 
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**TROLL**

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Electric Blue wrote:
piss off troll


How eloquently put , obviously the voice of reasoned debate around here, I would say that you must be their head Mass-debator :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:23 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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BlueMark wrote:
However our contract negoiations this year have been shambolic to say the very least.


Disagree.

I don't have a problem with the contracts that Fev, Waite, Walker and Livo got. Fair and reasonable imo.

Lappin seems to have been offered a standard 2 year deal. He wanted a 2 year deal + incentives and the club said no.

In the current climate I fully agree with the clubs' tough stance. The gravy train ride has ended.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:25 am 
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Ken Hunter
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I think it's a disgrace that we are treating our players like this.

Campo, Whitnall & Lappin deserve better from the club.

I'll say this one more time, Lappin turned back bigger offers to stay with Carlton, he has been one of our better players for the past three years and still get treated like this. :roll:

Whitnall/Campo are on backended deals. Meaning they earned less initially to earn more now. All averages out in the end and the club made the deal, in other words, it took two to tango.

I believe if ALL THREE where treated better at the negotiating table, ALL THREE would have signed by now and probably signed for a decent amount.

DISGRACEFUL CARLTON. :cry:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:26 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Oooh oooh...........

hil-larrrrrr-ious........!

now listen Jockstrap.......your very welcome to
come and play.....but don't break the toys
in the sand pit........!

manners sir..........manners.......!

didn't your mother teach you......?

how do you attract bees sir......?


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:36 am 
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Craig Bradley
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budzy wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
However our contract negoiations this year have been shambolic to say the very least.


Disagree.

I don't have a problem with the contracts that Fev, Waite, Walker and Livo got. Fair and reasonable imo.

Lappin seems to have been offered a standard 2 year deal. He wanted a 2 year deal + incentives and the club said no.

In the current climate I fully agree with the clubs' tough stance. The gravy train ride has ended.


Ian Coutts stated on the weekend stated that the club needed to improve on the way the contracts have been played out in public. Do agree with the clubs hardline on contracts, however if offers have been withdrawn then that is a concern. Really what we should be doing is. This is what we are offering. Take it or leave it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:53 am 
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Bruce Doull
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BlueMark wrote:
Ian Coutts stated on the weekend stated that the club needed to improve on the way the contracts have been played out in public. Do agree with the clubs hardline on contracts, however if offers have been withdrawn then that is a concern. Really what we should be doing is. This is what we are offering. Take it or leave it.


Who's going public though, the club or the player managers?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:56 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Lappins been a great servant to the club. No one is going to deny that, but these contract negotiations are not about "HAS" they are about "FUTURE" they are all part of the process that needs to be instilled in the club, for all future contract negotiations.

If we give in to players requests we set ourselves up for players in the future to take advantage of the club and get whats best for them and not what is best for the club.
IMO i agre with the clubs stance on all three players ( Lance to a lesser degree ) Campo and Lappin are not part of the clubs future so losing them is not a great loss, its only a sentimental loss. We will get over it just as they should also.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:03 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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BlueMark wrote:
Wouldn't have signed Livo, he has been terible all year. He was shocking on Saturday.


I disagree Mark.
Livo is learning the craft and has completed some big jobs.
For a young KPP on minimal bucks, he was well worth securing for another year.
Dont forget Williams has kicked a lot of goals on good players this year including 6 against Brisbane.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:05 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Wojee wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Ian Coutts stated on the weekend stated that the club needed to improve on the way the contracts have been played out in public. Do agree with the clubs hardline on contracts, however if offers have been withdrawn then that is a concern. Really what we should be doing is. This is what we are offering. Take it or leave it.


Who's going public though, the club or the player managers?


The time taken to resolve then has allowed the media to play the whole process up a bit. Think both parties are at fault. Collo's unfortunate illness hasn't helped matters, as he has to sign off on all deals before they go to the board for ratification.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:06 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Wouldn't have signed Livo, he has been terible all year. He was shocking on Saturday.


I disagree Mark.
Livo is learning the craft and has completed some big jobs.
For a young KPP on minimal bucks, he was well worth securing for another year.
Dont forget Williams has kicked a lot of goals on good players this year including 6 against Brisbane.


Livo is a back pocket at best.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:09 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Hey Jar got one for you - how many goals has Livo had kicked on him as fullback. Total, and ave per game please.

Now SOS.

Southby. with equivalent games if you can.

pretty please.....

some tiime????

and i never called you a suck. That was tommi!
8)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:14 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Danny Frawley hit the nail on the bottom on Triple M all weekend.

Carlton are planning for 3-5 years away now, Lappin, Kouta and Campo will not be around then and Whitnall is not suited to our game plan.

Take the emotion away from the decision making process and it is clear as day that we must take advantage now of whatever trade value is left on the above players.

If we play next year with a bunch of kids and lack the senior chore (who provide nothing this year anyway) then so be it. I'd rather fork out money on a membership watching a talented bunch of kids who bust a gut TOGETHER than watching champions of our club continue to lose the respect of the supporters and footballing public.

Sad days to lose champions of the club, but to succeed in the long term the tough decision need to be made.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:20 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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dannyboy wrote:
Hey Jar got one for you - how many goals has Livo had kicked on him as fullback. Total, and ave per game please.

Now SOS.

Southby. with equivalent games if you can.

pretty please.....

some tiime????

and i never called you a suck. That was tommi!
8)


You know I would if I could, but those stats would not be possible. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:21 am 
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Craig Bradley
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BlueMark wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Wouldn't have signed Livo, he has been terible all year. He was shocking on Saturday.


I disagree Mark.
Livo is learning the craft and has completed some big jobs.
For a young KPP on minimal bucks, he was well worth securing for another year.
Dont forget Williams has kicked a lot of goals on good players this year including 6 against Brisbane.


Livo is a back pocket at best.


And as soon as we can get another KPP backman I am sure that's where he will be playing.

However, to suggest that we trade/delist Livo, and "try" Bryan at CHB is a bit of a joke don't you think. Delist someone who has been learning to play fullback - AND has shown some improvement in the area, so we can "try" a bloke who has only ever been a (alightly undersized) ruckman?

You usually make a lot of sense BM, but this one sounds a little off-base.

A one-year incentive deal was appropriate for a guy in Livo's situation. If he shows no further improvement next year, and we have suitable replacements lined up, THEN maybe he should go.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:22 am 
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Bruce Doull
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mjonc wrote:
Danny Frawley hit the nail on the bottom on Triple M all weekend.


Yeah, cos Spud's such an astute observer of the game and coach....:garthp:

Anyway, where was the sentiment for our club champions when we were shipping them all off to St Kilda in the 70s and 80s? Jezza, Maclure, just to name 2. there is a long list of which we should be ashamed of bundling out the door. Why the nostalgia about players now, at a time when we Need to think about the future? And when we're talking about players who appear to not give a shit about the team, about the club, beyong getting 20+ cheap kicks a week (in one case, that is).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:25 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Livos has been 'learning' Full Back for 4 years, yes I know he has been injured a lot. But to be honest I have not seen a lot of improvement. Our defence looks a lot better when T-Bird is at FB and has Livo alongside of him to lend support.

Re Bryan, he is tall, a good mark and an extra-ordinarily long kick. Perfect CHB material I would think. Well worth a shot.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:30 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
mjonc wrote:
Danny Frawley hit the nail on the bottom on Triple M all weekend.


Yeah, cos Spud's such an astute observer of the game and coach....:garthp:

Anyway, where was the sentiment for our club champions when we were shipping them all off to St Kilda in the 70s and 80s? Jezza, Maclure, just to name 2. there is a long list of which we should be ashamed of bundling out the door. Why the nostalgia about players now, at a time when we Need to think about the future? And when we're talking about players who appear to not give a shit about the team, about the club, beyong getting 20+ cheap kicks a week (in one case, that is).


Jezza&Maclure were never shipped off. Jezza went on his own accord after the '79 election turmoil. Maclure never played for StK. Others that did:

Sheldon
Wow
Marcou
Aitken


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:34 am 
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Trevor Keogh
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BlueMark wrote:
Livos has been 'learning' Full Back for 4 years, yes I know he has been injured a lot. But to be honest I have not seen a lot of improvement. Our defence looks a lot better when T-Bird is at FB and has Livo alongside of him to lend support.

Re Bryan, he is tall, a good mark and an extra-ordinarily long kick. Perfect CHB material I would think. Well worth a shot.


Bryan could not keep up with Ackland in the St Kilda game so cant see him being any sort of option down back.
Bryan is a back up ruckman and perhaps a forward pocket Lade type of player.
Let him have another pre season and see how he goes when French is fit and has a bit of touch.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:37 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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BlueMark wrote:
Our defence looks a lot better when T-Bird is at FB and has Livo alongside of him to lend support.


Possibly so Mark but he cant be lending support if he's not contracted.

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